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	<title>Comments on: What? Politeness Counts in Foreign Relations?</title>
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	<description>which ofttimes goes &#039;snicker snack&#039;</description>
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		<title>By: The Further Adventures of Dick Tracy, Library Cop &#171; his vorpal sword</title>
		<link>http://hisvorpal.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/what-politeness-counts-in-foreign-relations/comment-page-1/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>The Further Adventures of Dick Tracy, Library Cop &#171; his vorpal sword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 03:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hisvorpal.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/what-politeness-counts-in-foreign-relations/#comment-59</guid>
		<description>[...] I make up words, it&#8217;s at least funny. Like &#8220;buffrontery&#8221; which, obviously, means to be insulted by a buffoon. Or, simply, listening to three hours of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I make up words, it&#8217;s at least funny. Like &#8220;buffrontery&#8221; which, obviously, means to be insulted by a buffoon. Or, simply, listening to three hours of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hart Williams</title>
		<link>http://hisvorpal.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/what-politeness-counts-in-foreign-relations/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Hart Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 01:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hisvorpal.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/what-politeness-counts-in-foreign-relations/#comment-38</guid>
		<description>Whatever it takes to make YOU happy, Pam. That&#039;s our motto here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever it takes to make YOU happy, Pam. That&#8217;s our motto here.</p>
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		<title>By: pamelapod</title>
		<link>http://hisvorpal.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/what-politeness-counts-in-foreign-relations/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>pamelapod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hisvorpal.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/what-politeness-counts-in-foreign-relations/#comment-37</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re priceless. Don&#039;t ever change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re priceless. Don&#8217;t ever change.</p>
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		<title>By: Hart Williams</title>
		<link>http://hisvorpal.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/what-politeness-counts-in-foreign-relations/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Hart Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hisvorpal.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/what-politeness-counts-in-foreign-relations/#comment-34</guid>
		<description>I never pretended to be &quot;reviewing&quot; Ahminidinejad&#039;s appearance or performance. 

I was merely pointing out that courtesy has tangible political benefits, and that not one American life was worth the incalculable rudeness we showed, and the imbecility we showed the world. 

Your comments, while thoughtful, don&#039;t have a damned thing to do with what I wrote about.

So I don&#039;t know what to say, except that, since you reject the idea that politeness is any sort of virtue, then I should, to be courteous, speak to you in the language that you insist is most appropriate in this case:

God what a dumbass you are! Next time, try READING before shooting your big mouth off.

There. I hope that was sufficiently rude to make you feel at home. That was your stated wish, yes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never pretended to be &#8220;reviewing&#8221; Ahminidinejad&#8217;s appearance or performance. </p>
<p>I was merely pointing out that courtesy has tangible political benefits, and that not one American life was worth the incalculable rudeness we showed, and the imbecility we showed the world. </p>
<p>Your comments, while thoughtful, don&#8217;t have a damned thing to do with what I wrote about.</p>
<p>So I don&#8217;t know what to say, except that, since you reject the idea that politeness is any sort of virtue, then I should, to be courteous, speak to you in the language that you insist is most appropriate in this case:</p>
<p>God what a dumbass you are! Next time, try READING before shooting your big mouth off.</p>
<p>There. I hope that was sufficiently rude to make you feel at home. That was your stated wish, yes?</p>
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		<title>By: pamelapod</title>
		<link>http://hisvorpal.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/what-politeness-counts-in-foreign-relations/comment-page-1/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>pamelapod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hisvorpal.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/what-politeness-counts-in-foreign-relations/#comment-33</guid>
		<description>My first reaction to Lee Bollinger&#039;s handling of this event was that the invitation to Ahmadinejad was all about him and his university.  He promised a vigorous exchange of ideas.  He talked about the importance of freedom of speech.  But there is no way that a university president and students could aggressively question Ahmadinejad without being seen as impolite.  Therefore, I believe that a question-and-answer session at a university with someone like Ahmadinejad was a really bad idea.  Better to keep all those polite, dishonest poses in a diplomatic setting than to pretend that you are likely to get to some profound truth during a campaign opportunity for Ahmadinejad at a university.  It was clear from Bollinger&#039;s introduction that he was aware of Ahmadinejad&#039;s propensity for making journalists look stupid by dodging and re-directing their questions.  I can&#039;t see how he could have expected anything else in the format which was set up for the speech.  

Anne Applebaum called Ahmadinejad &quot;a man whose regime locks up academics for the &#039;crime&#039; of organizing academic conferences and regularly arrests the Iranian equivalent of the students who listened to him speak Monday.&quot;  He might have asked to speak at  Columbia as a distraction from the closings of universities in Iran on his watch. 
 
Once the mistake of accepting Ahmadinejad&#039;s request to speak was made, I wonder if anyone considered one of Applebaum&#039;s ideas for strengthening the cause of free speech:   &quot;If the president and dean of Columbia truly believed in an open exchange of ideas, they should have presented Ahmadinejad with an Iranian dissident or human-rights activist to debate—someone from his own culture who could argue with him in his own language&quot;.  But while this option would have given a voice to someone who had less access to media than does Ahmadinejad, it would still not fulfill international expectations for diplomatic politeness toward world leaders.  The purpose of a university is not diplomatic outreach.

http://www.slate.com/id/2174602/nav/tap2/

As the event turned out, Bollinger got to look like he was bravely &quot;speaking Truth to Power&quot;.  Back in the Middle East, Ahmadinejad got to spin the rudeness toward him to make himself look brave for entering the &quot;lion&#039;s den&quot;, defending &quot;scientific freedom&quot; (holocaust denial), etc.  The losers from this sorry event appear to include America, Lebanon and Israel, as well as more moderate voices in the current Iranian government.  Not to mention Iranian dissidents.
  
On the other hand, there are rumors that Ahmadinejad&#039;s speech was a condition for the release of Haleh Esfandiari from solitary confinement in Evin Prison in Iran.  Maybe the Columbia administration had some motives which weren&#039;t entirely selfish.

http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/09/mahmouds_manhattan_moment.php 

You said, &quot;Are we really this pathetic? America as a country so uninterested in peace that we loll around in our soiled overalls, our love handles oozing through the cracks, chewing on a plug of terbaccy, fondling our Wal-Mart 9 mm pistol, drinkin’ beer, farting and laughing “They hain’t gots no gays, Ma!”  But the most prominent images of discourtesy on the modern campus in the last few decades have been those of angry, self-righteous, PC protestors.  Be honest:  Didn&#039;t Bollinger and his audience sound more like haughty, agree-with-me-or-else intellectuals  than the stereotypical ignorant, gun-from-Walmart hayseed you depict in your post, even with Bollinger&#039;s uncharacteristic and somewhat inaccurate &quot;petty dictator&quot; charge against Ahmadinejad?  Not that conservatives and libertarians can&#039;t be disrespectful:

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2004/01/a_taxonomic_the.html

Back to speaking Truth to Power:  You said, &quot;Yup: he (and his country) believe some pretty unenlightened stuff about the Holocaust, Israel and gays. But 20 years ago, you could have found a thousand US politicians who would have said equally insane crap.&quot;   I cannot think of a single politician in 1987 who did something like organizing a conference for holocaust deniers and who was also given a polite hearing at a university like Columbia.  Or one who said something as stupid as &quot;there are no gays in our country&quot; with full knowledge that his regime hangs gays and who was also given a polite hearing at a university like Columbia.  On the other hand, hundreds of conservatives, moderates or errant liberals have been denied the opportunity to speak on university campuses during the last 20 years for trying to express much less extreme positions, or have been shouted down when they tried to speak.
  
Concerning the demonization of Larry Summers as a symbol of bigotry and the decision to &quot;disinvite&quot; him from a UC California dinner speech, Cassandra said:  &quot;As I noted during the Larry Summers brouhaha at Harvard, contrary to the spin put upon his words, Summers never insulted women then. The true insult, were gender feminists only smart enough to realize it, came when he broke down and apologized to them. . . &quot;

http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2007/09/duhversity_tole_1.html

A conservative/libertarian backlash against the type of rude, exclusionary behavior exhibited toward Summers seems to have started recently.  Maybe more respectful treatment of others in our universities should include Americans as well as foreigners.  

http://instapundit.com/archives2/009333.php#009333 

As for Ahmadinejad, I think that the best way for Americans to show true respect for him would be to take seriously what he says to audiences in the Middle East, where his claim that he cannot tell a lie because he is Muslim has some applicability, at least in theory, because he is not speaking to an infidel audience.  The best way to support those in Iran who are disaffected with him is to listen to them, too.  They are the ones who really need courage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first reaction to Lee Bollinger&#8217;s handling of this event was that the invitation to Ahmadinejad was all about him and his university.  He promised a vigorous exchange of ideas.  He talked about the importance of freedom of speech.  But there is no way that a university president and students could aggressively question Ahmadinejad without being seen as impolite.  Therefore, I believe that a question-and-answer session at a university with someone like Ahmadinejad was a really bad idea.  Better to keep all those polite, dishonest poses in a diplomatic setting than to pretend that you are likely to get to some profound truth during a campaign opportunity for Ahmadinejad at a university.  It was clear from Bollinger&#8217;s introduction that he was aware of Ahmadinejad&#8217;s propensity for making journalists look stupid by dodging and re-directing their questions.  I can&#8217;t see how he could have expected anything else in the format which was set up for the speech.  </p>
<p>Anne Applebaum called Ahmadinejad &#8220;a man whose regime locks up academics for the &#8216;crime&#8217; of organizing academic conferences and regularly arrests the Iranian equivalent of the students who listened to him speak Monday.&#8221;  He might have asked to speak at  Columbia as a distraction from the closings of universities in Iran on his watch. </p>
<p>Once the mistake of accepting Ahmadinejad&#8217;s request to speak was made, I wonder if anyone considered one of Applebaum&#8217;s ideas for strengthening the cause of free speech:   &#8220;If the president and dean of Columbia truly believed in an open exchange of ideas, they should have presented Ahmadinejad with an Iranian dissident or human-rights activist to debate—someone from his own culture who could argue with him in his own language&#8221;.  But while this option would have given a voice to someone who had less access to media than does Ahmadinejad, it would still not fulfill international expectations for diplomatic politeness toward world leaders.  The purpose of a university is not diplomatic outreach.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2174602/nav/tap2/" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/id/2174602/nav/tap2/</a></p>
<p>As the event turned out, Bollinger got to look like he was bravely &#8220;speaking Truth to Power&#8221;.  Back in the Middle East, Ahmadinejad got to spin the rudeness toward him to make himself look brave for entering the &#8220;lion&#8217;s den&#8221;, defending &#8220;scientific freedom&#8221; (holocaust denial), etc.  The losers from this sorry event appear to include America, Lebanon and Israel, as well as more moderate voices in the current Iranian government.  Not to mention Iranian dissidents.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there are rumors that Ahmadinejad&#8217;s speech was a condition for the release of Haleh Esfandiari from solitary confinement in Evin Prison in Iran.  Maybe the Columbia administration had some motives which weren&#8217;t entirely selfish.</p>
<p><a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/09/mahmouds_manhattan_moment.php" rel="nofollow">http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/09/mahmouds_manhattan_moment.php</a> </p>
<p>You said, &#8220;Are we really this pathetic? America as a country so uninterested in peace that we loll around in our soiled overalls, our love handles oozing through the cracks, chewing on a plug of terbaccy, fondling our Wal-Mart 9 mm pistol, drinkin’ beer, farting and laughing “They hain’t gots no gays, Ma!”  But the most prominent images of discourtesy on the modern campus in the last few decades have been those of angry, self-righteous, PC protestors.  Be honest:  Didn&#8217;t Bollinger and his audience sound more like haughty, agree-with-me-or-else intellectuals  than the stereotypical ignorant, gun-from-Walmart hayseed you depict in your post, even with Bollinger&#8217;s uncharacteristic and somewhat inaccurate &#8220;petty dictator&#8221; charge against Ahmadinejad?  Not that conservatives and libertarians can&#8217;t be disrespectful:</p>
<p><a href="http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2004/01/a_taxonomic_the.html" rel="nofollow">http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2004/01/a_taxonomic_the.html</a></p>
<p>Back to speaking Truth to Power:  You said, &#8220;Yup: he (and his country) believe some pretty unenlightened stuff about the Holocaust, Israel and gays. But 20 years ago, you could have found a thousand US politicians who would have said equally insane crap.&#8221;   I cannot think of a single politician in 1987 who did something like organizing a conference for holocaust deniers and who was also given a polite hearing at a university like Columbia.  Or one who said something as stupid as &#8220;there are no gays in our country&#8221; with full knowledge that his regime hangs gays and who was also given a polite hearing at a university like Columbia.  On the other hand, hundreds of conservatives, moderates or errant liberals have been denied the opportunity to speak on university campuses during the last 20 years for trying to express much less extreme positions, or have been shouted down when they tried to speak.</p>
<p>Concerning the demonization of Larry Summers as a symbol of bigotry and the decision to &#8220;disinvite&#8221; him from a UC California dinner speech, Cassandra said:  &#8220;As I noted during the Larry Summers brouhaha at Harvard, contrary to the spin put upon his words, Summers never insulted women then. The true insult, were gender feminists only smart enough to realize it, came when he broke down and apologized to them. . . &#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2007/09/duhversity_tole_1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2007/09/duhversity_tole_1.html</a></p>
<p>A conservative/libertarian backlash against the type of rude, exclusionary behavior exhibited toward Summers seems to have started recently.  Maybe more respectful treatment of others in our universities should include Americans as well as foreigners.  </p>
<p><a href="http://instapundit.com/archives2/009333.php#009333" rel="nofollow">http://instapundit.com/archives2/009333.php#009333</a> </p>
<p>As for Ahmadinejad, I think that the best way for Americans to show true respect for him would be to take seriously what he says to audiences in the Middle East, where his claim that he cannot tell a lie because he is Muslim has some applicability, at least in theory, because he is not speaking to an infidel audience.  The best way to support those in Iran who are disaffected with him is to listen to them, too.  They are the ones who really need courage.</p>
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